Born Again Christians Mentally Slow Science Mad
Okay, so this is something I idea of a while agone, and I hadn't heard of information technology earlier.
Premise: Those who are innocent automatically become to heaven
"innocent" is defined as someone who could not take reasonably known almost God or the bible (i.east. babies, indigenous tribes people, severely mentally slow people etc.)
The conclusion is then to strive to make all people fit into this "innocent" category. Mothers should kill their babies before they grow upward and have a gamble of becoming a nonbeliever, people should destroy all of the bibles and whatsoever other evidence of Christianity so that no one could reasonably know about God or the bible.
Notes on this argument:
Don't even start with that "The evidence for God is all around yous" bullshit from Romans because I could hands magic wand away that show with a severely slow person or a baby, and you as well take to know most Jesus in social club for yous to accept him as your lord and savior, or else there was no point of him coming hither in the start place. Likewise don't even try that "The bible obviously doesn't tell a female parent to impale her child" or "killing/destroying the bible is wrong; yous will go to hell for an action like that". One, any decent mother would probably gladly endure an eternity in Hell if it meant her child was guaranteed a one-mode ticket to heaven; the same concept is applicable for the "killing/destroying the bible is wrong...". If you lot knew an activity could potentially guarantee all of humanity a complimentary trip to sky, you should probably feel obligated to do so, even if information technology lands you in Hell... I mean come on, that'due south like ten Billion : 1 ratio of Heaveners to Hellers (If one person was able to ensure that everyone was indeed innocent, but fifty-fifty a significantly lower ratio is still more than sufficient for this statement).
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Not a adept argument, if I am understanding it right.
First, no 1 - not babies or the mentally deficient etc - is innocent. The Bible does not hold that position. Every single human being beingness except Jesus Christ is very guilty earlier God.
Second, every last sin has been paid for past the Spiritual Death of the Lord Jesus so that anyone who wishes to be forgiven and reconciled to God can be.
Tertiary, children below the age of accountability and the mentally disadvantaged are incapable of making decisions. But because all sins including theirs accept been paid off, what counts is that they did not reject the Sacrifice made in their behalf. So they are saved.
4th, not hearing the Gospel is no excuse. Every human being being who has reached the age of accountability and has a working brain knows that God exists, that we are sinful and that there is terrible Judgment waiting after Death. If they decide to ignore that instead of looking for the Answer to that problem or to hide behind all manner of non-solutions, then they deserve the Judgment waiting for them.
And so, there is no escape. You can think and you understand that there is a God, that you are sinful, that you will die and there is Hell waiting after that. If you fail to have the Gospel, there is no escape. If yous reject it, there is no escape. If you lot destroy all Bibles, in that location is still no escape.
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An easier solution would be to just non have any babies. How insane is information technology that people who believe that anyone who rejects their doctrine volition be teleported to a parallel universe where they will be tortured for eternity... nevertheless coil the dice and create new people?
Anyone who believes in hell should be an antinatalist. It is the only guaranteed style to salve people from eternal torture.
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It appears that you have missed a cardinal betoken.
James 4:12: "There is just one lawgiver and guess, he who is able to salvage and to destroy. Merely who are you to judge your neighbor?"
So only God tin can say who is innocent or not.
TheArranger:Premise: Those who are innocent automatically go to heaven
"innocent" is defined as someone who could non have reasonably known nigh God or the bible (i.e. babies, indigenous tribes people, severely mentally tedious people etc.)
The determination is and so to strive to make all people fit into this "innocent" category. Mothers should impale their babies before they grow up and have a chance of condign a nonbeliever, people should destroy all of the bibles and any other show of Christianity and then that no 1 could reasonably know virtually God or the bible.
Notes on this argument:Don't even showtime with that "The evidence for God is all around yous" bullshit from Romans considering I could easily magic wand abroad that evidence with a severely boring person or a baby, and y'all also have to know about Jesus in order for y'all to accept him as your lord and savior, or else there was no point of him coming here in the first place. Too don't even endeavour that "The bible obviously doesn't tell a mother to kill her child" or "killing/destroying the bible is incorrect; yous volition go to hell for an activeness like that". One, any decent mother would probably gladly suffer an eternity in Hell if it meant her kid was guaranteed a i-way ticket to heaven; the same concept is applicative for the "killing/destroying the bible is wrong...". If you knew an action could potentially guarantee all of humanity a free trip to heaven, you should probably feel obligated to do so, fifty-fifty if information technology lands you lot in Hell... I mean come on, that's like 10 Billion : ane ratio of Heaveners to Hellers (If one person was able to ensure that anybody was indeed innocent, but fifty-fifty a significantly lower ratio is nonetheless more than sufficient for this argument).
Well, if yous're going to address Christianity, then you'd have to address the fact that Christians believe that genuine religion lonely in Jesus makes a person righteous (this may perchance be the main/biggest point of the Christian faith). Maybe you take a totally different accept on it than me, but I recall Christians would rather effort to get people to believe in Jesus to become "innocent" instead of, you know, killing a bunch of babies and other people.
NnennaG6:
It appears that y'all have missed a central signal.James 4:12: "There is simply one lawgiver and approximate, he who is able to salvage and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"
And so only God can say who is innocent or non.
It appears that You have missed a central point. You accept two options here:
1. Worship a God that sends babies to heaven
2. Worship a God that doesn't send babies to heaven
Selection ane leads to mass baby murdering. Option two, good luck trying to get someone to worship a God who potentially does non send babies to heaven.
XxSabrinaxX:It appears that You have missed a key point. Yous accept ii options here:
one. Worship a God that sends babies to heaven
2. Worship a God that doesn't send babies to heaven
It appears your options are quite limited, exposing that your understanding of your Creator may be as such.
Again: James four:12: At that place is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to relieve and to destroy. But who are you to guess your neighbour?
XxSabrinaxX:Option one leads to mass babe murdering. Option two, good luck trying to get someone to worship a God who potentially does not ship babies to heaven.
Understand, y'all aren't the lawgiver nor guess. So you're really in no position to fix how it is.
Bye.
NnennaG6:Well, if you're going to address Christianity, then you'd have to address the fact that Christians believe that 18-carat faith lone in Jesus makes a person righteous (this may perhaps be the principal/biggest point of the Christian faith). Peradventure you have a totally different take on information technology than me, but I think Christians would rather try to go people to believe in Jesus to become "innocent" instead of, you know, killing a bunch of babies and other people.
Merely if they just effort to convince people, then in that location is a gamble that person will not believe in the stop. By killing the baby, you lot guarantee them a spot in heaven; that'south a 100% success rate.
NnennaG6:It appears your options are quite limited, exposing that your understanding of your Creator may be as such.
Over again: James 4:12: There is only one lawgiver and estimate, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are y'all to judge your neighbor?
Understand, yous aren't the lawgiver nor judge. So y'all're really in no position to ready how information technology is.
Good day.
Okay I am going to try and brand this as clear as possible for you.
1. Worship a God that sends babies to heaven
ii. Worship a God that doesn't send babies to sky
The above two options literally cover all of the possibilities for your God. Either he does or does not permit babies into heaven; there literally it non another choice. OP is saying that you have to selection which one of those your God is (according to your Christian beliefs or whatsoever organized religion you belong to), and then the argument is that either way y'all're screwed because both lead to an cool outcome.
Gooder 24-hour interval 
Vic2Ree:By killing the babe, you guarantee them a spot in sky; that's a 100% success rate.
I'g not certain what you mean by this because this is a super loaded argument on what Christianity thinks is skilful. Are you saying that Christianity teaches that life on this world is nothing and it'due south better just to not live and go to heaven?
Are you lot saying that the Christian platonic is (or should exist) that all people should but kill babies from this bespeak on till they themselves die so that humanity doesn't continue and we die out and all those murdered babies go to heaven?
XxSabrinaxX:Okay I am going to try and make this equally articulate every bit possible for you.
1. Worship a God that sends babies to heaven
2. Worship a God that doesn't ship babies to heavenThe above two options literally cover all of the possibilities for your God. Either he does or does non let babies into heaven; at that place literally it not another option. OP is saying that you have to pick which 1 of those your God is (according to your Christian beliefs or whatever religion you belong to), and so the argument is that either way you're screwed considering both atomic number 82 to an absurd consequence.
You still have a false dilemma fallacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma ) on your hands, from non understanding the topic of debate (faith). I suggest y'all take the fourth dimension to understand the topic in greater depth, if not to discover your Creator, at least to exist able to debate the topic better. But trying to insult with it is zero short of poor class, and I'd expect improve, Sabrina.
XxSabrinaxX:
Gooder day
And for the concluding time, bye.
Vic2Ree:But if they just try to convince people, and then there is a chance that person will not believe in the end. By killing the baby, y'all guarantee them a spot in heaven; that's a 100% success charge per unit.
LOL. Yep, certain, kill your children when y'all have them.
I am guaranteeing to you lot that the Bible teaches that babies are automatically saved. No uncertainty of information technology. Now kill all your babies when you take them. I'd dear to come across how unselfish you are willing to be nigh this.
NnennaG6:Yous still have a fake dilemma fallacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma ) on your hands, from not understanding the topic of debate (religion). I suggest you take the time to understand the topic in greater depth, if non to discover your Creator, at least to be able to debate the topic better. But trying to insult with it is zippo short of poor form, and I'd expect better, Sabrina.
And for the concluding fourth dimension, cheerio.
Information technology isn't a false dilemma when there really are only two options. One time we assume Yhwh and sky, the claim "Yhwh sends all babies to heaven" either is true or isn't true.
Ihedinobi3:
Not a expert argument, if I am understanding it right.Outset, no one - not babies or the mentally deficient etc - is innocent. The Bible does not agree that position. Every single human beingness except Jesus Christ is very guilty before God.
Second, every terminal sin has been paid for by the Spiritual Death of the Lord Jesus then that anyone who wishes to be forgiven and reconciled to God can be.
Third, children below the age of accountability and the mentally disadvantaged are incapable of making decisions. But because all sins including theirs have been paid off, what counts is that they did non decline the Sacrifice made in their behalf. So they are saved.
Fourth, not hearing the Gospel is no alibi. Every human being who has reached the historic period of accountability and has a working encephalon knows that God exists, that we are sinful and that in that location is terrible Judgment waiting afterward Death. If they decide to ignore that instead of looking for the Answer to that problem or to hide backside all style of non-solutions, then they deserve the Judgment waiting for them.
So, there is no escape. You tin think and you understand that at that place is a God, that you are sinful, that y'all volition die and there is Hell waiting later on that. If y'all fail to accept the Gospel, there is no escape. If you lot refuse it, there is no escape. If you destroy all Bibles, in that location is nonetheless no escape.
Complete and utter bullshit !!
i. Babies are guilty of what ?? A baby born today is guilty of the sin of ADAM is what you call justice.
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." - Ezekiel 18:20
2. Wrong - Jesus did not dice for the SINs of flesh , its all make believe.
"No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a bribe for them--" - Psalm 49:7
3. Yep, billions of children in non-christian countries have rejected the sacrifice and are hell bound for eternity
"Their worship is a farce, for they teach human being-made ideas every bit commands from God." - Marking 7:vii
This is not a GOSPEL of LOVE for the LOST, it is a SADISTIC Barbarous DOCTRINE , CONCOCTED by superstitious people from a PRIMITIVE ERA.
Get put your GOSPEL in the TRASH CAN where it belongs.
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One thing that I call back is worthy of note in all this is how atheists are and so concerned nigh saving anybody merely themselves.
An atheist won't believe in Jesus Christ because a Sentinelese has never heard of Him.
An atheist wants to impale babies and the insane considering he wants to relieve them.
Anything at all but really believe in Jesus Christ for themselves.
I mean, does whatever of them actually call up about the stuff they say?
XxSabrinaxX:It isn't a false dilemma when at that place really are but ii options.
No one knows how God judges, and to lump it into two options is a false dilemma.
XxSabrinaxX:Once we assume Yhwh and heaven, the claim "Yhwh sends all babies to heaven" either is truthful or isn't truthful.
Then you say. I advise you take the time to larn the topic of debate (religion) in greater depth. Skillful 24-hour interval.
MhizAngel99:
An easier solution would exist to simply not accept any babies. How insane is it that people who believe that anyone who rejects their doctrine will be teleported to a parallel universe where they will be tortured for eternity... still roll the dice and create new people?Anyone who believes in hell should be an antinatalist. It is the only guaranteed way to relieve people from eternal torture.
At that place is no ETERNAL TORTURE , none whatsoever. It is a FIGMENT of IMAGINATION in the small minds of religious fanatics.
Ihedinobi3:LOL. Yeah, sure, kill your children when you have them.
I am guaranteeing to you that the Bible teaches that babies are automatically saved. No doubt of it. Now impale all your babies when you accept them. I'd love to see how unselfish you are willing to be about this.
NnennaG6:I'm non certain what y'all mean by this because this is a super loaded statement on what Christianity thinks is good. Are you saying that Christianity teaches that life on this earth is nix and information technology'south improve only to not live and go to sky?
Are you lot saying that the Christian ideal is (or should be) that all people should merely kill babies from this signal on till they themselves die so that humanity doesn't continue and we die out and all those murdered babies become to heaven?
Two of you need to calm down and reason. I am proverb that guaranteeing someone a spot in heaven is paramount. The actual number of people I do not think matters and so much; I contend that it's more than about the success charge per unit.
Vic2Ree:Two of you lot demand to at-home down and reason. I am saying that guaranteeing someone a spot in heaven is paramount. The actual number of people I do not think matters so much; I contend that it's more near the success rate.
Interesting, two questions on that:
i. Are you lot maxim what you remember is best, or what y'all recall Christianity teaches?
2. Merely for fun to poke at the idea: are you saying that guaranteeing 100% of 100 people to sky is better than getting 25% of 100,000 people? If and so, why?
frosbel2:Complete and utter bullshit !!
1. Babies are guilty of what ?? A baby built-in today is guilty of the sin of ADAM is what you telephone call justice.
"The son shall not deport the iniquity of the begetter, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
From the first jiff, all human beings sin. I was not arguing that babies are guilty of everyone else's sin.
frosbel2:
2. Incorrect - Jesus did not die for the SINs of mankind , its all make believe."No one tin can redeem the life of another or give to God a bribe for them--"
[vii]No man tin can by any ways redeem his brother Or requite to God a bribe for him-
Psalms 49:vii NASB
The Lord Jesus was both God and Homo. God could pay the cost and He did using a human body.
frosbel2:
Yep, billions of children in non-christian countries take rejected the sacrifice and are hell bound for eternity
Says who? You lot?
frosbel2:
This is not a GOSPEL of LOVE for the LOST, it is a SADISTIC Fell DOCTRINE , CONCOCTED by superstitious people from a Primitive ERA.Go put your GOSPEL in the trash can where it belongs.
Since I did non even address you, it just goes to show that something is very deeply incorrect with you to accept you looking to attack the Gospel everywhere. What did information technology do to you, Mm?
Vic2Ree:Two of you need to calm down and reason. I am maxim that guaranteeing someone a spot in heaven is paramount. The actual number of people I practice not think matters and then much; I contend that it's more about the success rate.
I demand to calm downward and reason? Allow me sympathize what you lot are saying.
You lot who desire to kill babies to guarantee that they won't go to Hell are telling ME who is incredulous that a reasoning human being would call up such a matter to at-home down and reason?!
You, sir, are insane.
Ihedinobi3:From the first breath, all homo beings sin. I was not arguing that babies are guilty of anybody else's sin.
[7]No man tin by whatever means redeem his blood brother Or give to God a ransom for him-
Psalms 49:7 NASBThe Lord Jesus was both God and Human. God could pay the toll and He did using a human body.
Says who? You?
Since I did not fifty-fifty address you, it just goes to evidence that something is very securely incorrect with you to have y'all looking to attack the Gospel everywhere. What did it practise to you lot, Mm?
You are quoting vaxx - who is HE ?
NnennaG6:No one knows how God judges, and to lump it into ii options is a faux dilemma.
So y'all say. I suggest you accept the time to learn the topic of debate (organized religion) in greater depth. Adept day.
From your Wikipedia link:
A false dilemma is a blazon of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional pick.
Nnenna, yous can't complain that "God sends babies to sky" vs "God doesn't sent babies to heaven" is a false dilemma. Those are the but 2 options. Information technology'due south a true dilemma. Information technology appears even You have no idea what you are talking about
Goodest day
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frosbel2:You are quoting vaxx - who is HE ?
Fault. Corrected.
Ihedinobi3:From the offset jiff, all human beings sin. I was not arguing that babies are guilty of everyone else's sin.
Lol. As shortly as the infant pops of of the mother's womb and cries waah waah, information technology automatically becomes a sinner ? 
Do yous know how silly this makes yous wait ?
Sin actually ways missing the mark or coming short every bit information technology were. How tin a baby miss the mark or come short when he/she has no understanding of wrong from right ?
[vii]No homo tin can by whatever ways redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him-
Psalms 49:seven NASBThe Lord Jesus was both God and Man. God could pay the price and He did using a human body.
Nope. Jesus ( if he existed ) was a mere man.
Because ;
" God is not human being, that he should lie, not a human being existence, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" - Numbers 23:19 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth." - John 4:24
I expect you to play games with the bible verses just quoted , but it is obviously for everyone to see that God just cannot be a MAN, that is the stuff from Greek Infidel Mythology.
Since I did not even address you, it only goes to show that something is very deeply wrong with you to have you lot looking to attack the Gospel everywhere. What did information technology practice to you, Mm?
At that place is absolutely nothing incorrect with me , my aim every bit said a few times is not to make people become atheist, because I believe in God ( just not your god ), rather it is to free the young ones here from fell, controlling and tyrannical religion.
Ihedinobi3:
Not a good argument, if I am understanding it correct.Showtime, no one - not babies or the mentally deficient etc - is innocent. The Bible does not agree that position. Every single human being except Jesus Christ is very guilty earlier God.
Second, every last sin has been paid for past the Spiritual Death of the Lord Jesus so that anyone who wishes to exist forgiven and reconciled to God can be.
Third, children below the historic period of accountability and the mentally disadvantaged are incapable of making decisions. But considering all sins including theirs have been paid off, what counts is that they did not pass up the Sacrifice fabricated in their behalf. So they are saved.
Fourth, not hearing the Gospel is no excuse. Every human being who has reached the age of accountability and has a working encephalon knows that God exists, that we are sinful and that there is terrible Judgment waiting afterwards Expiry. If they determine to ignore that instead of looking for the Answer to that trouble or to hibernate behind all way of non-solutions, and then they deserve the Judgment waiting for them.
So, there is no escape. Y'all can think and you lot understand that in that location is a God, that you are sinful, that yous will die and there is Hell waiting after that. If you lot fail to take the Gospel, there is no escape. If you decline it, there is no escape. If you lot destroy all Bibles, in that location is nonetheless no escape.
With all these automatic things going on, why does everyone need faith in information technology? Its been done, the sins are paid for according to you lot, what then is organized religion for? I tell you I have paid money into your business relationship exercise you need to accept faith again for you lot to withdraw the money? If you went to the cashier and said I don't believe at that place is money in in my account but here is a check for the amount LordReed said he sent, will the cashier say get lost you don't believe?
frosbel2:Lol. As shortly as the baby pops of of the mother's womb and cries waah waah, it automatically becomes a sinner ?
Practice y'all know how dizzy this makes you look ?
Sin really means missing the mark or coming brusk every bit information technology were. How can a baby miss the marker or come brusk when he/she has no understanding of wrong from correct ?
Does the opinion of a mad homo nearly your actions and behavior bother y'all, frosbel?
Every activity or word or idea that goes contrary to God's Law is a sin whether it was done ignorantly with no understanding of what was done or it was done arrogantly knowing fully well what ane was doing. All children below the historic period of accountability and all insane people sin ignorantly. So, they as well are sinners only similar atheists who sin very arrogantly and similar the rest of us do both ignorantly and arrogantly.
frosbel2:
Nope. Jesus ( if he existed ) was a mere man.Considering ;
" God is not human, that he should lie, not a human existence, that he should change his heed. Does he speak and so non act? Does he hope and not fulfill?" - Numbers 23:19
"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth." - John 4:24
I expect you to play games with the bible verses just quoted , but information technology is obviously for everyone to see that God but cannot be a Human, that is the stuff from Greek Pagan Mythology.
God is not Man. God never changed in His intrinsic Divine Nature to become a Man. Rather, God put on human nature in add-on to His Deity in order to be able to die for our sins since God cannot dice.
frosbel2:
At that place is absolutely nothing incorrect with me , my aim as said a few times is not to make people become atheist, because I believe in God ( only not your god ), rather it is to gratuitous the immature ones hither from cruel, controlling and tyrannical religion.
Who said you lot don't believe in God? I was just talking about how you take fabricated it a mission to attack the Gospel specifically everywhere y'all run into it. I mean, you lot keep seeking me out to do but that. That is not indicative of neat internal health.
[quote writer=Ihedinobi3 mail=75210477]
All children below the age of accountability and all insane people sin ignorantly. So, they too are sinners simply similar atheists who sin very arrogantly and like the residual of the states do both ignorantly and arrogantly.
Can you lot name a few sins that a new born baby may commit 'ignorantly'.
God is not Man. God never inverse in His intrinsic Divine Nature to become a Man. Rather, God put on human nature in addition to His Deity in lodge to be able to dice for our sins since God cannot dice.
The muslims and the Jews were right, they consider your statement blasphemous because in their optics and according to their religion you are reducing the creator to the lowly level of a mortal whereas God is immortal and completely spirit.
Yous also said God cannot dice, all the same Jesus died. Jesus said no one should call him good , that only God was good, he also said that his words and works were not from his own ability , but from power imbued upon him by God. Jesus never one time claimed that he was God, this is but apologists making things upwards to marshal with their ulterior religious and political motives.
Who said you don't believe in God? I was just talking about how you take made it a mission to attack the Gospel specifically everywhere yous run into it. I mean, you keep seeking me out to do only that. That is non indicative of great internal health.
Yes, I am not attacking you as a person , I am going after a deluded mythical load of claptrap that is doing great impairment to our youth, taking the land backward and making it hard for people to reason properly. What Nigerians need is a healthy environment for spiritual discourse , one that is void of religious dogma and quack apologists.
I won't stop.
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LordReed:With all these automatic things going on, why does everyone need faith in it? Its being done, the sins are paid for according to you lot, what then is faith for? I tell yous I accept paid money into your account practice you need to have faith again for you lot to withdraw the money? If you went to the cashier and said I don't believe there is money in in my business relationship but hither is a cheque for the amount LordReed said he sent, volition the cashier say get lost yous don't believe?
As I said, sin has been paid for simply then nosotros cannot accept advantage of that payment unless we believe that it has been made for united states.
Those who are automatically saved are those who, as I also said, who are unable to brand a choice. Even so, God knows precisely what each person would choose given the opportunity and then that there is not a unmarried person who is saved automatically who would not take chosen to be saved if they had the risk to cull.
Ihedinobi3:As I said, sin has been paid for but then nosotros cannot take advantage of that payment unless we believe that it has been made for united states of america.
Those who are automatically saved are those who, equally I also said, who are unable to make a selection. Yet, God knows precisely what each person would choose given the opportunity and then that at that place is not a unmarried person who is saved automatically who would not take chosen to be saved if they had the chance to cull.
The question is why is faith important for this process? When something has been performed why do you lot need faith for information technology again?
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